(T-B) Chinasa Anukam’s ITST, Olanrewaju Eniola’s Flow with Korty, and Chude Jideonwo’s WithChude. / Collage by THE REPUBLIC.
THE MINISTRY OF CULTURAL AFFAIRS
Are Indie Creators the Future of Talk Shows in Nigeria?
(T-B) Chinasa Anukam’s ITST, Olanrewaju Eniola’s Flow with Korty, and Chude Jideonwo’s WithChude. / Collage by THE REPUBLIC.
THE MINISTRY OF CULTURAL AFFAIRS
Are Indie Creators the Future of Talk Shows in Nigeria?
I invented Chimamanda. It happened shortly before my first novel was published,’ Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie told presenter and host, Ebuka Obi-Uchendu, in 2021, during a ‘BlackBox’ interview. According to Adichie, ‘It was really about me thinking how can I hold onto this [confirmation] name (Amanda) and make it Igbo.’
I was just as surprised as Obi-Uchendu by this revelation when I watched this interview. You see, I had always wondered about the uniqueness of Adichie’s name from the moment I picked up Purple Hibiscus. While noting the stark difference between Aunty Ifeoma’s home and Papa’s house, I’d find my mind wandering, trying to pronounce ‘Chimamanda’ to get it right when recommending the book to friends.
Eighteen years after her debut novel, Adichie disclosed this information about her name in an interview that focused on the human behind the craft. Human interest stories garner a lot of attention because everyone likes to feel connected. However, in Nigeria, many press junkets that notable personalities engage in are for public relations. They could be promoting their music, upcoming books, movies or projects.
But what happens when a talk show host seeks to connect to the person behind the brilliance, glamour, and charm of their career? Do we get interesting discoveries like the one above?
CREATIVE EXPERIMENTATION IN HUMAN-INTEREST INTERVIEWS
Chinasa Anukam had been thinking along these lines when she returned to Nigeria for her sister’s wedding in 2020. By her words, she has lived many lives and switched careers one too many times. But, comedy, her first love, began to feel sustainable during drama school in New York.
Stuck in Nigeria during the lockdown, Anukam began brainstorming the possibilities available to her in the comedy industry. In a flurry of experimental activity, she got a production crew together and started a conversational talk show, Is This Seat Taken?. ‘Before I started,’ she said, ‘I found that a lot of the conversations that pop culture figures had in Nigerian interviews felt very mechanic. I didn’t want that, I wanted to humanize them.’
The rapper, Falz, didn’t need a lot of convincing to be the first guest on her show. The artist is known for his wit and quirky character, so he was her first choice because she knew he would understand her vision.
In the show, Anukam sets the date scene with her catchphrase, ‘Is this seat taken?’. The tone of each episode takes on a life of its own based on the responses of each guest. During the date, she asks in-depth questions about their personal growth and career goals. Oftentimes, her guests are awed by her research and intrigued by her comedic timing. They get comfortable enough to go along on this [pretend] date, wining and dining as they banter and spar with Anukam. She told me:
Every episode exists as an individual concept. Everybody brings something different. If I sit down with Layi and I sit down with Tems, they won’t give me the same thing. So, everything is tailored by what makes the most sense for the guest and what will get the best conversation out of them.
Three years and over 20 episodes after her first ‘date’, Anukam believes the talk show is the best idea she’s ever had. Having her high-quality production reach over 100,000 subscribers on YouTube is the icing on the proverbial cake for her.
YouTube has become a useful platform for creators like Anukam. In 2020, the video-sharing company launched the #YouTubeBlack Voices Fund, to support black creators and storytelling from their perspective. Spurred by the #BlackLivesMatter movement and aiming to amplify Black voices, YouTube set up the $100 million fund to sponsor authentic Black content and stories for three years. Each year had a new cohort of over 100 Black creators globally.
Eniola Olarenwaju was a recipient of the Black Voice Fund in the class of 2023. Popularly known as Korty, Olarenwaju was one of the 15 African creators in her cohort. When Olarenwaju started her YouTube channel, it was a way to experiment and express her thoughts and experiences. A 2021 video about moving out of her parent’s home at 22 has garnered over 300,000 views, and it set the tone for the lifestyle videos she would eventually create. Today, she spotlights select Nigerian culture, taking us into the world of artists, tech entrepreneurs, footballers and more of the creative scene in her docu-style show, Flow with Korty. According to Korty:
My shows exist out of curiosity. Flow with Korty started because I was very curious about people who I personally consider trailblazers or trendsetters in some sense. How they got where they are now and navigating their journeys, because I think it’s a hard responsibility to take up, which is why I wouldn’t just film anybody.
Like Anukam’s show, each episode of Flow with Korty is based on the mood and personality of the guest. However, it feels more intimate to the audience because it encapsulates what a day in the life of these guests is like. One episode of Flow with Korty shows singer, Rema’s artistic side and how he would navigate his life as Divine (his first name) if he didn’t have his music career. Another episode shows the playful side of the artist Tems and her penchant for mathematics.
But shows like these are not just there to help viewers find a light-hearted moment in their day or a new revelation about their ‘fave’; they are also a way to provide solace for those who need to share how they found their way out of trauma, depression and life challenges. That’s the purpose of the series WithChude, for instance, according to Dorcas Taiwo, the product manager at Joy Inc, company behind the series.
In June 2019, photographer and content creator, Busola Dakolo, alleged that she was raped by Pastor Biodun Fatoyinbo, the founder of Commonwealth of Zion Assembly, during her tell-all interview with media entrepreneur, Chude Jideonwo. Many Nigerians were shocked by these accusations and moved to find a resolution on the matter, taking to the streets to protest, and calling for Fatoyinbo to step down from his pastorship and be investigated. Eventually, Dakolo filed a case against Fatoyinbo but the Federal Capital Territory High Court in Bawri dismissed the case, and she was fined N1 million.
Although WithChude could not have predicted the viral response the interview got, the team was glad to have been able to provide a platform for Dakolo. Five years and many episodes after the Dakolo interview, Suzanne Emma, ex-wife of Nollywood actor, Emeka Ike, alleged that she endured domestic violence during their marriage. According to Emma, she chose to speak up because she had had enough of her ex-husband maligning her character.
After a bout of depression, Jideonwo started researching mental health issues, quickly realizing that the number of young Africans experiencing depression was rapidly increasing yearly. That propelled him to create Joy Inc. in 2015, with WithChude becoming a media product of the company.
‘Our mission [at Joy Inc.] is to transform sub-Saharan Africa into a mental, emotional and social safe place,’ Taiwo told me. ‘WithChude tells stories that strengthen the mind, the earth and the spirits. We’ve had multiple experiences [to tell those stories] much more over the four years that we’ve been existing.’
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PAST AND PRESENT: THE LIFESPAN OF TALK SHOWS
Unlike talk shows from the early 2000s, the core of today’s talk shows is to humanize their guests. These shows build on the legacies of earlier shows like ‘Moments with Mo’, ‘Inside Out with Agatha’, ‘New Dawn with Funmi Iyanda’, and ‘The Teju Babyface Show’. While these earlier, more TV-friendly shows tended to have studio audiences, to the audience it still felt like only two people (the interviewer and interviewee) were having a conversation and every other person was an onlooker. However, the relatively new Nigerian talk shows on YouTube have an interview and production style that has audiences feeling like they’re a part of the discussion.
Take, for instance, a 2024 episode of IsThisSeatTaken that featured comedian, Isaac Olayiwola (more commonly known as Layi Wasabi). At one point during the interview, Olayiwola switched from his comedic alter ego to continue his interview with Anukam. Seeing his real personality unfold, the audience was just as intrigued as his host. Anukam recalled that:
With Layi, I wanted to do something different with him because he has so much that you can play with. We can hit with the characters and play with elements. I can bring him out in a way he hasn’t been brought out as a person because most people know him for his character work. I knew I wanted to do that with him because there is a way he [Olayiwola] disappears into that [Layi Wasabi] character that I need to show that side of him because it is so different. So, I treated them as two different subject matters.
Similarly, Olarenwaju thinks what distinguishes today’s Nigerian talk shows on YouTube from the earlier shows is their unique approach to storytelling. The few available new-age talk shows are bringing in their different styles, figuring out what works along the way, and getting it right enough to keep the audience engaged and the guests interested in showing up for an interview. ‘Mine feels more like a docuseries than an interview,’ Olanrewaju said. ‘There’s the interview part, obviously, where I speak to you and you answer me. But there’s also how the story is presented, which is the thing that might distinguish my work.’
Meanwhile, WithChude’s focus is beyond interviews or storytelling as it allows people to tell their stories in a way that feels authentic to them. Taiwo explained that:
We create safe and warm spaces for people to tell their stories; their authentic truth. They can be their authentic self without the fear of judgment or any form of backlash or even having their thoughts misunderstood or misconstrued as something else, which is typically popular in Nigerian media.
Culture critic, Chimezie Chika, believes the realism of these new-age online talk shows is what makes them stand out to a more ‘cultured demographic’ in Nigeria. People who wouldn’t typically watch or listen to these interviews are tuning in because they like the lack of sensationalism that is present in other shows and podcasts. ‘If you listen to other podcasts, there is always this sensationalizing of content, just saying scandalous things for the sake of saying scandalous things,’ Chika said, ‘But I think a lot of cultured people who would not normally follow such podcasts follow today’s interviews.’
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YouTube is contributing largely to the dissemination of these interviews. Its barrier to entry is low, and it provides a source of quick and accessible revenue for creators. Besides its #YouTube Black Voices Fund initiative, other Nigerian creators that use the video platform reportedly have a 75 per cent reach to international audiences in 2022 according to The Punch. The Punch also reported 60 per cent increase in the number of Nigeria-based creators making over seven figures in naira revenue through YouTube in 2022.
As of August 2023, 98 per cent of Nigerians responding to a Statista survey say they engage with digital video content as their most-used media services. This is why creators and producers like Anukam, Olarenwaju and Jideonwo continue to have and share their talk shows and interviews on YouTube. Olanrewaju explained that, ‘YouTube exists for creators like me to explore and push themselves as far as they possibly can till it is time to migrate to something else or to the next stage.’
However, despite their shared sentiment toward YouTube, these talk show hosts highlighted that the next step is owning their platform. On 1 August 2024, Jideonwo launched his subscription video on demand, WithChude, a titular name of his talk show, expanding beyond YouTube, Vimeo, TikTok, Instagram and other social media platforms.
Olarenwaju also has plans to go beyond YouTube, by owning a platform under her production company, Any Production. But she would still want some of the content to stay on YouTube mostly because it’s easily consumable there. She said:
We can make it a full docuseries that moves from [YouTube]. Because we’ve seen people do it. People like Issa Rae, who started on YouTube with ‘Awkward Black Girl’, and then ‘Insecure’ moved to HBO, then she eventually started her own production company. So I think that progression is very possible here. YouTube is fun and nice, but there’s a lot more for someone like me. Nothing satisfies me. So that means exploring, making the show even more quality and putting it on more.
These productions are not without their challenges. Funding and the costs of production are one of the most challenging parts. But they also experience issues particular to their shows. For Anukam, it is location difficulties, sponsorship issues and clashing schedules with guests. For Olarenwaju, it is trying to build a team with the same vision and drive for expansion. Whereas, for the WithChude team, it is dealing with pushback, red tape and scheduling.
Undeterred, they continue to produce these shows, episode per episode, finding and working with a team that is ready to create a niche market in Nigerian media. From vulnerabilities to strengths, the hosts of these new-age talk shows are ready to show their mostly GenZ and Millenial audience the human side of Nigerian celebrities and notable personalities.
These talk shows might be new in the eyes of mainstream media, with arguably smaller numbers than their counterparts on Nigerian television and other parts of the world but Nigeria’s indie video creators are doing something Nigerian mainstream media has strived to achieve for decades: inviting the audience to be the guest and interviewer. They show us a side of celebrities we didn’t know we needed to see. They are veering off the path of formulaic narratives, and changing the culture scene by humanizing the personalities they encounter. Taiwo said that audiences love this approach because, ‘humans will always connect with humans,’ and the secret to the relative success and longevity of these indie shows is their portrayal of vulnerability.
I began to notice this change in Obi-Uchendu’s BlackBox interviews; today, this new wave continues with Is This Seat Taken? and Flow with Korty, and has been sustained in a different spin on WithChude.
Most importantly, Nigeria needs more media production like these to continue to exist and be created, the only way we know how: by weaving cultural nuances, and through storytelling that resonates deeply with a ‘cultured audience’⎈
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